There's plenty of textual and archaeological evidence for pagan practice, people who say it's just made-up nonsense have no idea. What paganism lacks is a holy text with clear rules, and unbroken lineage. But then paganism wasn't bookish or philosophical, so one shouldn't expect anything like a Bible or theological wrangling.
Regarding religion, I think for it to be authentic you have to either be born into it, so you learn to believe long before you can reason; or you need a powerful conversion experience, something like a mystical vision. I suppose you can choose a religion because it seems cool, but if you don't at some point have a soul-changing religious experience it'll always be just a LARP. I've seen many convert to Christianity then lose interest when, as it were, "nothing happens".
I've always liked the Heraclitus fragment, "the wise is one, it is willing and unwilling to be called Zeus", note also Wallace Stevens' 'Notes towards a Supreme Fiction'. For me at least, to be "pagan" is to be polytheistic, which means I can acknowledge all gods as maybe real, it's just that I have mine, they're mine due to lineage and vision. I'm however sympathetic to Christianity, I even lived in a Benedictine monastery for two years, and when people asked my religion I just said "I was raised Catholic". I find Islam and Judaism very alien, unsettling.
The way i see it: The Roman Empire (Hellenistic Paganism) biggest empire in History, very successful for 1000+ years. FOLLOWED BY - The Greek Byzantine Empire (Orthodox Christianity) one of the longest surviving empires, also 1000+ years. Fought and kept the muslims at bay for centuries, both white European.
I would also say to Christians: if you don't firmly believe that Jesus is God, bodily resurrected and ascended to heaven after eating grilled fish with his disciples, and that you will be physically resurrected too in the end of days, then stop thinking of yourselves as Christians and reflect on who you want to be instead.
To the pagans, I would say: you don't even know what you are talking about. Your paganism is pure fantasy with no historical backing. Think of yourselves as Romans instead, and know that Germans were always the greatest admirers of Rome. Give up the term "pagan" altogether. Don't you know is means "country folk" and was invented as a derogatory term by Christians for people who called themselves "traditionalists" or "Hellenes" (in the East).
Finally, to both, I would say: read my book "What the Christians did to the Romans"
I have never encountered a white pagan. I'm CoE and the idea of someone worshipping Thor, God of Thunderbolts, is corny. That being said, if I did meet someone like that, I wouldn't say anything or mistreat them. As for what is coming, yes, it will all boil down to race.
Of note: It will be interesting to see which way European Muslims go. I suspect they will join other Europeans as the migrants don't like them either and Islam has never been monolithic. Look how many Chechens in France openly clash with Arabs and Africans.
So you took absolutely nothing away from this essay? Your just going to continue the infighting and widening the divide. Well done mate, keep fighting for zog.
I disagree with the premise. White Christians literally believe that other whites will burn in hell for eternity, and deserve to, for not worshipping the same rabbi as them. How can you unite with that? It's a mind virus, a sickness.
First of all, thats protestant heresy and warped nonsensical theology, thats not how hell works, its not a place, its an experience, we will all be in the presence of God after death, how you experience that is up to you and me, its either a warm light or a burning flame. There is nowhere God is not and if you hate God and want nothing to do with him you will experience eternity as a torment, if you have spent your life attuning yourself to God, you will be in eternal joy and union, God is what God is, he doesnt change.
"Come, come! We are all friends here. Or should be; for the laughter of Mordor will be our only reward, if we quarrel" - Gandalf at the Council of Elrond.
Given that USAmerican evangelica Christianity is the dominant version on-line, I have to think the problem is not solvable, because:
Not using the term "pagan" would go a long way too, as would Christians stating their particular version of the cult ("I'll stop calling it a cult of a Jewish heretic when you stop calling insert-faith-here pagan", kind of.) But good luck getting American Christians to do that, and good luck getting American "pagans" to drop the Jewish-heretic-stuff. The conflict has become a mutually defining trait, almost reminiscent of shia/sunni (or Catholic/Protestant).
But:
Good points, very good points and very good summary, and you really cut to the bone of contention for both.
Tl;dr-meandering general thoughts on the topic as such:
Minor, personal, note would be that Christianity lost its power long before nationalism became a real thing in the 19th century, and the reason for it losing its power was its own corruption, and mule-headed sticking to dogma when it came to scientific research and applications of science.
Certainly, this is based on a different definition of "power" from the one you use in your text; I'm looking at it from the persepctive of how much the Church could wrangle exceptions from the common law, and how much it could pressure secular leaders into doing its bidding. Normally, (i.e. what I was taught when I was a student), the starting-point of the gradual loss of power would be dated to somewhen in the 1500s or 1600s when looking at the upper classes, and the 1700s when concerning the masses. Key events being the Bible being translated to the language of the people of a nation, the Gutenberg press, paper and thus pamphleteering becoming cheap and common, and of course the Reformation and the resulting wars culminating with the Thirty Years War.
But as said, that's a minor point despite its scope since it is only of interest when looking at the background, and not what can be done in the present.
On the more religious aspect, I think a sticking-point that it is impossible to get rid of is Christianity's insistence on being the only real religion worshipping the only real god; that Christians in the present do not understand that a) this makes them equal to moslems in attitude and b) that it is damn insulting to the majority of humanity past and present, well - they are by their dogma and tradition obligated and compelled to think that that is [True], so how to work around that?
The other cults do not have that problem. Nowhere can you find Bridig or Svantevit or Vulkan or Ull say only they are real.
Further, there's an irreconcilable difference between the pre-Christian faiths of Europe and elsewhere, and the three Abrahamic sects:
The god of Abraham demands under punishment of torture and death, that you *obey* and make obeisance and worship and kneel.
That attitude, mollified by Jesus to no small degree I want to point out (and re-inforced in extremis by Mahomet), simply isn't there among Teutons and Norse and Slavs and Celts and so on.
Where a Jew, Christian or moslem /must/ obey certain commands and commandments, Voluspa and Havamal (f.e.) has Oden giving sage advise, but it is up to you what you do with it, just as it is up to you if you want to make offerings (blot) or not.
I don't think that fundamental a differnce - the one between a willing servant and a free man - can be mended, done away with or removed.
At best a truce while the greater enemy is destroyed - but some, on either side, would rather see the other guy lose than be on the winning team.
The question for us all is, what am I willing to compromise on in order to win?
Another great article Woes...I would like a dissident right intellectual to comment on atheism and white nationalism... although there are few of us, I think there is a growing crossover of WN and atheists such as JF Gariepy
At some point I will publish an essay about my own "religious" views. It's in the works.
As for Atheism, I am fine with it as long as it is not an ideology, a "political" project, which it became in circa 2010 with the YouTube atheists following on from Dawkins et al. I don't think that is helpful for anyone.
Richard Dawkins is antiwhite... he is a charlatan and a coward who has never touched the race issue... in the new atheism era he mildly criticised Islam and now he won't even do that... if he read Charles Darwin as passionately as he says he has, he would know that he wrote "Remember what risk the nations of Europe ran, not so many centuries ago of being overwhelmed by the Turks, and how ridiculous such an idea now is! The more civilised so-called Caucasian races have beaten the Turkish hollow in the struggle for existence. Looking to the world at no very distant date, what an endless number of the lower races will have been eliminated by the higher civilised races throughout the world."
I could explain 2000 years of theology but its not apropos to do it here, simply put did christians let the muslims walk all over them, or did they fight for and defend europe for centuries? you have a fundamental misunderstanding of the position
There's plenty of textual and archaeological evidence for pagan practice, people who say it's just made-up nonsense have no idea. What paganism lacks is a holy text with clear rules, and unbroken lineage. But then paganism wasn't bookish or philosophical, so one shouldn't expect anything like a Bible or theological wrangling.
Regarding religion, I think for it to be authentic you have to either be born into it, so you learn to believe long before you can reason; or you need a powerful conversion experience, something like a mystical vision. I suppose you can choose a religion because it seems cool, but if you don't at some point have a soul-changing religious experience it'll always be just a LARP. I've seen many convert to Christianity then lose interest when, as it were, "nothing happens".
I've always liked the Heraclitus fragment, "the wise is one, it is willing and unwilling to be called Zeus", note also Wallace Stevens' 'Notes towards a Supreme Fiction'. For me at least, to be "pagan" is to be polytheistic, which means I can acknowledge all gods as maybe real, it's just that I have mine, they're mine due to lineage and vision. I'm however sympathetic to Christianity, I even lived in a Benedictine monastery for two years, and when people asked my religion I just said "I was raised Catholic". I find Islam and Judaism very alien, unsettling.
Have a sunny day!
The way i see it: The Roman Empire (Hellenistic Paganism) biggest empire in History, very successful for 1000+ years. FOLLOWED BY - The Greek Byzantine Empire (Orthodox Christianity) one of the longest surviving empires, also 1000+ years. Fought and kept the muslims at bay for centuries, both white European.
Which pre 11th century English kings claimed descendancy from Woden?
And why might they do so?
When was the first complete translation of the 'bible' produced in English?
Come back to this once you've discovered some of the basic deceptions you and many others labour under.
Sunday - still named for the Anglo-Saxon, Germanic goddess Sunna, that pulls her shining chariot across the sky.
Good advice, except the last one.
I would also say to Christians: if you don't firmly believe that Jesus is God, bodily resurrected and ascended to heaven after eating grilled fish with his disciples, and that you will be physically resurrected too in the end of days, then stop thinking of yourselves as Christians and reflect on who you want to be instead.
To the pagans, I would say: you don't even know what you are talking about. Your paganism is pure fantasy with no historical backing. Think of yourselves as Romans instead, and know that Germans were always the greatest admirers of Rome. Give up the term "pagan" altogether. Don't you know is means "country folk" and was invented as a derogatory term by Christians for people who called themselves "traditionalists" or "Hellenes" (in the East).
Finally, to both, I would say: read my book "What the Christians did to the Romans"
I have never encountered a white pagan. I'm CoE and the idea of someone worshipping Thor, God of Thunderbolts, is corny. That being said, if I did meet someone like that, I wouldn't say anything or mistreat them. As for what is coming, yes, it will all boil down to race.
Of note: It will be interesting to see which way European Muslims go. I suspect they will join other Europeans as the migrants don't like them either and Islam has never been monolithic. Look how many Chechens in France openly clash with Arabs and Africans.
Great work again Woes!
Christians are Jews, therefore don't count as white
So you took absolutely nothing away from this essay? Your just going to continue the infighting and widening the divide. Well done mate, keep fighting for zog.
I disagree with the premise. White Christians literally believe that other whites will burn in hell for eternity, and deserve to, for not worshipping the same rabbi as them. How can you unite with that? It's a mind virus, a sickness.
First of all, thats protestant heresy and warped nonsensical theology, thats not how hell works, its not a place, its an experience, we will all be in the presence of God after death, how you experience that is up to you and me, its either a warm light or a burning flame. There is nowhere God is not and if you hate God and want nothing to do with him you will experience eternity as a torment, if you have spent your life attuning yourself to God, you will be in eternal joy and union, God is what God is, he doesnt change.
Now you're pretending your religion is about God and not Yahweh and Rabbi Yeshua.
"Come, come! We are all friends here. Or should be; for the laughter of Mordor will be our only reward, if we quarrel" - Gandalf at the Council of Elrond.
Given that USAmerican evangelica Christianity is the dominant version on-line, I have to think the problem is not solvable, because:
Not using the term "pagan" would go a long way too, as would Christians stating their particular version of the cult ("I'll stop calling it a cult of a Jewish heretic when you stop calling insert-faith-here pagan", kind of.) But good luck getting American Christians to do that, and good luck getting American "pagans" to drop the Jewish-heretic-stuff. The conflict has become a mutually defining trait, almost reminiscent of shia/sunni (or Catholic/Protestant).
But:
Good points, very good points and very good summary, and you really cut to the bone of contention for both.
Tl;dr-meandering general thoughts on the topic as such:
Minor, personal, note would be that Christianity lost its power long before nationalism became a real thing in the 19th century, and the reason for it losing its power was its own corruption, and mule-headed sticking to dogma when it came to scientific research and applications of science.
Certainly, this is based on a different definition of "power" from the one you use in your text; I'm looking at it from the persepctive of how much the Church could wrangle exceptions from the common law, and how much it could pressure secular leaders into doing its bidding. Normally, (i.e. what I was taught when I was a student), the starting-point of the gradual loss of power would be dated to somewhen in the 1500s or 1600s when looking at the upper classes, and the 1700s when concerning the masses. Key events being the Bible being translated to the language of the people of a nation, the Gutenberg press, paper and thus pamphleteering becoming cheap and common, and of course the Reformation and the resulting wars culminating with the Thirty Years War.
But as said, that's a minor point despite its scope since it is only of interest when looking at the background, and not what can be done in the present.
On the more religious aspect, I think a sticking-point that it is impossible to get rid of is Christianity's insistence on being the only real religion worshipping the only real god; that Christians in the present do not understand that a) this makes them equal to moslems in attitude and b) that it is damn insulting to the majority of humanity past and present, well - they are by their dogma and tradition obligated and compelled to think that that is [True], so how to work around that?
The other cults do not have that problem. Nowhere can you find Bridig or Svantevit or Vulkan or Ull say only they are real.
Further, there's an irreconcilable difference between the pre-Christian faiths of Europe and elsewhere, and the three Abrahamic sects:
The god of Abraham demands under punishment of torture and death, that you *obey* and make obeisance and worship and kneel.
That attitude, mollified by Jesus to no small degree I want to point out (and re-inforced in extremis by Mahomet), simply isn't there among Teutons and Norse and Slavs and Celts and so on.
Where a Jew, Christian or moslem /must/ obey certain commands and commandments, Voluspa and Havamal (f.e.) has Oden giving sage advise, but it is up to you what you do with it, just as it is up to you if you want to make offerings (blot) or not.
I don't think that fundamental a differnce - the one between a willing servant and a free man - can be mended, done away with or removed.
At best a truce while the greater enemy is destroyed - but some, on either side, would rather see the other guy lose than be on the winning team.
The question for us all is, what am I willing to compromise on in order to win?
Another great article Woes...I would like a dissident right intellectual to comment on atheism and white nationalism... although there are few of us, I think there is a growing crossover of WN and atheists such as JF Gariepy
At some point I will publish an essay about my own "religious" views. It's in the works.
As for Atheism, I am fine with it as long as it is not an ideology, a "political" project, which it became in circa 2010 with the YouTube atheists following on from Dawkins et al. I don't think that is helpful for anyone.
Richard Dawkins is antiwhite... he is a charlatan and a coward who has never touched the race issue... in the new atheism era he mildly criticised Islam and now he won't even do that... if he read Charles Darwin as passionately as he says he has, he would know that he wrote "Remember what risk the nations of Europe ran, not so many centuries ago of being overwhelmed by the Turks, and how ridiculous such an idea now is! The more civilised so-called Caucasian races have beaten the Turkish hollow in the struggle for existence. Looking to the world at no very distant date, what an endless number of the lower races will have been eliminated by the higher civilised races throughout the world."
Did you miss the comic he chose to end this with? Can't say I laughed.
atheism is a bit nihilistic and degenerate cmon...
So better to pretend to believe mutually antagonistic bullshit about loving our enemies or apollo?
I could explain 2000 years of theology but its not apropos to do it here, simply put did christians let the muslims walk all over them, or did they fight for and defend europe for centuries? you have a fundamental misunderstanding of the position
White unity at every opportunity.